Chud of the Rings—With Bret Devereaux

Peter Thiel, president and founder of Clarium Capital Management LLC, during the Allen & Co. Media and Technology Conference in Sun Valley, Idaho, on July 10, 2026.

(David Paul Morris / Bloomberg via Getty Images)

We all love making fun of fascists. But Dr. Bret Devereaux makes an art of it. Bret is a historian of antiquity and a Tolkien scholar, and he doesn’t suffer fools. He’s been going at it with the world of online chud “historians”—the fascists who say they’re fighting to defend “Western Civilization,” something they’ve never bothered to actually try to understand. And he has similarly choice words for the far-right billionaire freaks who idolize, and utterly misunderstand, The Lord of the Rings.

This is a genuinely delightful conversation for nerds like us. But it’s also a serious look into the ways the far right misuses history and literature to advance their fucked-up worldviews—and how we can fight back.

Check out Bret’s wonderful blog, A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry.

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Matt DaSilva

Matt DaSilva is a co-host of the Fighting Fascism podcast.

Jonathan Smucker

Jonathan Smucker is cofounder and executive director of Popular Comms, a cofounder of Pennsylvania Stands Up, and the author of Hegemony How-To: A Roadmap for Radicals. He has worked for over 25 years as a political organizer, campaigner, and strategist, and has trained thousands of organizers and social movement participants.

Aaron Regunberg

Aaron Regunberg is a climate lawyer, a contributing editor at The New Republic, and a former Rhode Island state representative.

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